NWP

[smartybones]

I am surprised at the way some people view things through rose coloured glasses..... SW are grabbing at straws, unless you claim your prize soon, there will not be any prize to claim.

I may also remind our colonial cousins that a sonicwarp are based in the united kingdom, they are bound to the laws of the united kingdom. I do not know if in the USA companies are allowed to just change the rules as they see fit, but here in little old England, they are not.

first of all, there are rules regarding competitions. these rules are set out to stop people from being conned. one of the fundamental rules is that no purchase is necessary. this is why there was the free search. the option if you did not want to find a free isis was to purchase one. that is the route most people have taken. Now with the addition of a subscription, you have to buy a subscription. therefore a purchase is necessary.

second. to receive a prize, you should not have to pay a fee.... To be able to locate a pyramid to receive a prize, i now have to pay..

As far as the terms and conditions are concerned. To form a legally binding contract, the terms must be fair to both parties. Ant term which puts one party to a disadvantage is unfair. Thats why we have the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999...

4.1 We reserve the right to:
4.1.1 Modify or withdraw, temporarily or permanently, the Website (or any part of) with or without notice to you and you confirm that we shall not be liable to you or any third party for any modification to or withdrawal of the Website; and/or

this term would give sonicwarp the right to remove the website or parts of the website that make claiming a prize impossible. If they did, and effectively have with the new subscription section, would mean that a Isis puzzle you have is no longer fit for purpose and would be your right under the sale of goods act for a refund. The part where it says "shall not be liable to you or third party......"I believe is in breech of the Unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999 in this context.

4.1.2 Change these Conditions from time to time and your continued use of the Website (or any part of) following such change shall be deemed to be your acceptance of such change. It is your responsibility to check regularly to determine whether the Conditions have been changed. If you do not agree to any change to the Conditions then you must immediately stop using the Website

This term will not stand up in any English or European court as fair, and without that term sonicwarp cannot alter the t&c without prior notice or acceptance.

also, in another point of law,(which i will keep to myself for now) i am not bound by the terms and conditions as published on this website.

I suggest that sonicwarp get a better legal department.

I have emailed sonicwarp regarding the return of my isis for a refund as it is no longer fit for purpose, but have yet to get a response.

sb.

[Kheldar]

So you mean to tell us that you purchased the Isis puzzle SOLELY for the reward after opening? Not one bit of you was in it just for the enjoyment of a great puzzle? That's half the fun right there, figuring out how to open it! Don't get me wrong, the adventure part really begins upon opening it, but the Isis is "no longer fit for purpose"???? Respectfully, I think you're making a mountain of a mole hill; best of luck to you back in the real world.

[steve]

When I joined the Isis adventure I came and read the forum, I spent a full day reading it, I enjoyed it.
The next day a new member joined, not long after that the forum was full of anger and negative posts about SW.
This went on and on for what seemed like ages. Apologies where made and things quietened down for a while.
The next thing we know the very person that was posting a lot of negative posts turns out to be an adventurer and the partner of a pyramid keeper, who also claimed to be an adventurer.
I can't be bothered looking up the terms and conditions but I know that it states somewhere that basically families of keepers and keepers themselves are not allowed to participate in the adventure, interesting little twist there.
The forum since, has had its ups and its downs,
But just as everyone seems to be happy even though some of the decisions that have been made may not suit all.
Now dear smartybones returns and starts spouting more hot air, if you have a problem with SW decisions, take it up with them, It is not our fault and I personally couldn't care less if you leave the adventure, I don't want to come home of an evening a read your verbal diarrhoea.
Anyway if I were to book a room for the night I would expect to pay for it, if I were to go to the bar in the evening, would the drinks be free or would I have to pay extra for the extras.
There is however another forum that might welcome you with open arms, why not go there and vent you hot air.
I apologise to the other members of the forum for being blunt and or harsh, but this is yesterdays news, I am sick of the intellectually bankrupt spoiling it for others.

[cornettracing80]

WOW!

[smartybones]

Anyway if I were to book a room for the night I would expect to pay for it, if I were to go to the bar in the evening, would the drinks be free or would I have to pay extra for the extras.

....But what if in the middle of the night, the management decided to change the T&C and the bedding was now an extra at a cost, did not tell you about the change, then asked for additional money in the morning stating you should have been aware that the T&C may change at any time and is your responsibility to make yourself aware of the change, and if you were to find out in the middle of the night of the change, then you should leave straight away.......... would you then still pay the extra charge for bedding. Some would, but they will be muttering that it was not fair and very underhanded... others would and say nothing. There certainly will be others that would disagree , refuse to pay, and make there feelings very clear.

and yes, the main reason for buying an isis was to "solve the puzzle and claim the prize..". except for it was changed to,"solve the puzzle, solve the riddle, then claim the prize...." now its changed again to "solve the puzzle, pay some more money, solve the riddle, then claim the prize.." Sonicwarp are not playing fair....

And steve, for someone who is trying to put them self in a higher intellectual category than others, resorting to personal abuse is really not the way to go.... and verbal is spoken, not written......

[Dooners]

The unfair contract terms act also says it is applicable if any unfair terms and conditions were not properly introduced I.E you have not had the chance to be notified of the changes. Well SW did give us advanced notification. You also potentially had able opportunity to view the standard T&C. The Sales of Good acts could only apply if your goods were faulty, and thereafter within a reasonable amount of time afterwards.

And as for competitions, you can run competitions where no purchase is necessary, as long as there is an element of skill in solving them.....

Lets face it your only legal persuit is through the small claims court, personally I think you won't stand a chnace, but that is up to you.

In the meantime please stop venting at those of us that have paid and want to get on and enjoy the adventure. and support SW. If you don't like it and don't feel you can be part of it, that is a shame, but please give us the same curtesy as you have demanded and leave quietly.

[steve]

Believe me smartybones, I was not resorting to personal abuse, I was stating the facts as I see them from your behaviour, you would know all about it if I were to start calling you down, that was me being nice albeit annoyed.
The facts being that firstly this is not the place to raise your concerns, that would be with SW.
Secondly, the situation you are in with your pyramid, to me seems a bit dubious to say the least.
I find your statement "solve the puzzle and claim the prize.." a bit bold, I am sure that I am not the only one, especially since you deleted your post a while ago saying that you used the internet to help you open your Isis.
I think that the sheets would not be considered as extras, that comparison would be more in keeping with the cardboard box that the Isis comes in.
As for your statement "verbal is spoken, not written......" I am just going to treat that with the contempt that it deserves.
It is not my intellect that is at question here, you felt the need to air your grievances against SW here, I am not defending them but I was just airing my grievances with you here.
I am not going to turn this into an online argument, but in future if you are going to frequent this forum, I for one would appreciate it if you would go easy on the negative posts, folks come here to relax and enjoy the adventure, not to here/see people moaning.

[shaka04]

Wow (as Cornett said) - I certainly didn't pay £20 for a year's membership to have some random person who isn't happy with the T&Cs to be abusing something I have paid for.

Yes, rabble on about the fact that it is unfair and that this forum is laid back in terms of free speech, but your problem is with SW which should be dealt with direct.

If you want to take legal action, go ahead, but don't cast a shadow over these forums. By doing this, you can be putting off so many potential customers - if that happens, I can see the yearly subscription having a price increase.... Not forgetting that people who HAVE paid and WANT to support SW for the fun of this whole adventure and series of puzzles.... They don't want to see a forum (that they have willingly paid for) being tainted by someone who obviously won't be swayed in opinion. It's obvious that your views are to strong for you to change opinion and pay the membership - so leave quietly - don't spoil it for the rest of us!

I suggest that you collect all of your thoughts/opinions and deal with SW directly.

Take a step back. You have aired your view here. People here don't all agree with you, as we're happy with paying.

So ask yourself.... - what are you trying to achieve by posting all of your comments here? Don't waste time here - your beef is with SW so keep it there.

I won't be responding to ANY posts in connection with this again - I'm too busy enjoying this unique adventure to waste my time writing out another lengthy reply. I'm not getting into any 'heated discussion' so leave me out of this.

All of the above is my own view - everyone is entitle to their own opinion. The above is MY FEELINGS ON THE MATTER. Don't attack me for that. I may read up on this particular topic but it's becoming tiresome very quickly....

On with the adventure... To all adventure/puzzlers... good luck in the future...

Now... how do you open this damn Ramisis?????

Pete

[Karen_G]

on a personal matter,,,, congrats on the baby and the wedding.... A little late i know, but had other things to do other than troll forums lol

Thanks Smartybones

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about SW, but as other members have asked, could you please refrain from discussing this matter further. Please contact SW directly.

Thank you,

Best wishes,

Karen

[kyrirhcp]

ok, since some people here are not exactly listening to what is happening and are being so ignorant i'll put it this way, SW are f***ing us over for our cash! it's as simple as that! we are not the 'intelectually bankrupt' we are the people who read the terms and conditions, but, under contract law, we were presented with the terms after purchasing the puzzle. SW has NO RIGHT to change the terms and conditions as they see fit. They aren't running out of cash, they are just getting greedy and trying to see how much they can milk us for. Perhaps some of you will realise this when suddenly the Ramisis rules are changed and they add a 'magic' tax to your adventure. Or when the Isis 3 comes out and costs something rediculous. You should realise this now and make your complaints now. I reckon the whole idea behind this £20 is to discourage people from continuing the journey and claiming prizes. so what happens? your 'investment' (cough cough b*lls**t) is more along the lines of a simple purchase, money lost.
wise up. it was fun, but the real reason you got the puzzles was for the coins. I enjoyed opening the ball but im not willing to pay a subscription. neither should any of you. you have rights. maybe you don't want to 'fight' SW, but you should understand that they are breaking the law at this point. you should not be happy with the way they are treating us right now.

[cornettracing80]

solve the riddle ...20pounds turns into 500 pounds...that is a good investment....since you are not "intellectually bankrupt"...that should be an easy windfall for you!!......
say whatever you want the majority are going to continue with/without the naysayer...means very little to us if you guys continue or not....and we all will be witness's for SW....good luck with your civil suit....

steve....you have done your duty to SW....dont get yourself worked up they arent worth that at all..and you know that i know what i am talking about ...i let them under my skin on a regualur bases....puzz followed the rules..he's in the clear...

poor Karen is caught in the cross fire..... duck honey....

[Kheldar]

ok, since some people here are not exactly listening to what is happening and are being so ignorant i'll put it this way, SW are f***ing us over for our cash! it's as simple as that! we are not the 'intelectually bankrupt' we are the people who read the terms and conditions, but, under contract law, we were presented with the terms after purchasing the puzzle. SW has NO RIGHT to change the terms and conditions as they see fit. They aren't running out of cash, they are just getting greedy and trying to see how much they can milk us for. Perhaps some of you will realise this when suddenly the Ramisis rules are changed and they add a 'magic' tax to your adventure. Or when the Isis 3 comes out and costs something rediculous. You should realise this now and make your complaints now. I reckon the whole idea behind this £20 is to discourage people from continuing the journey and claiming prizes. so what happens? your 'investment' (cough cough b*lls**t) is more along the lines of a simple purchase, money lost.
wise up. it was fun, but the real reason you got the puzzles was for the coins. I enjoyed opening the ball but im not willing to pay a subscription. neither should any of you. you have rights. maybe you don't want to 'fight' SW, but you should understand that they are breaking the law at this point. you should not be happy with the way they are treating us right now.

Nobody is forcing anybody else to pay anything. You aren't being coerced, and SW gave plenty of notice to the change in terms and conditions, and it is their right to do so, just as it is your right to not be required to continue. You can terminate your affiliation with SW whenever you wish. The real reason I got the puzzles is because I love puzzles AND I love treasure hunts. Even if I never get a coin, the thrill of the hunt is well worth my £20/year. It's a game, treat it like one and move on with your life.

[Karen_G]

Okay all, I think we've all had our say on the matter, so enough is enough!

I'm locking this thread.

Thank you,

Karen

[Karen_G]

Smartybones has asked me to tell you that the Northwest Pyramid has been closed.

Karen