big bang theory

[Kheldar]

To anyone who says that theirs no physical proof for the big bang theory: read a physics book! Red shift, and background microwave radiation support the theory perfectly. And to eveyone that says that the theory's wrong because "god created the universe": there's nothing in the bible that says HOW he created it, therefore the big bang theory doesn't contradict the bible at all! Think about it with an open mind before going medievil church on us.

Before getting defensive about it, understand too that there really IS NOT any physical PROOF of the big bang theory, just as there is NO PROOF of the biblical creation account either! None of us were there and no matter how much data is collected, no one will ever really be able to prove one way or another. I agree with you that there's nothing in the Bible that says HOW God created everything; however, my belief is that God's spoken words (yet alone thought) would be sufficient to just conjure it from nothingness instead of using a "big bang". Although that's my belief, I still go back to the fact that I can't prove anything and neither can anyone else. It takes great faith to believe either theory (as both are theories), but when I look at nature and creatures and the complexity, I can't help but think it was by intelligent design and not by chance. Just my one cent.

[cornettracing80]

adam and eve is absurd at this point,dinosaures where a test group?....i tend to think adam and eve is the moment we became less animal and more sapien,just in laymen terms.

[themagicdude]

Adam and Eve seems metephorical to me. Nothing in the bible has to be taken literally, because none of the prophits could have fully understood the meaning of the what they were writing. Saying that God created us in his likeness could mearly be refering to life. As in (and I know some people could be offended by this) Humans may be no more in God's likeness than bacteria. They both have life, so they both could be concidered in his likeness. Passages leave so much room for error in their interpretation that we should never be sure about our ideas about their meanings.

[Kheldar]

Interesting point. All we know is that "God is spirit". If we are created in the image of God, we are created with spirit, which I translate as mind and soul. You're right, other than that, we're at a loss and will never know until the end. I agree that much is allegorical or parabolical, not literal, but I think many of the stories (esp. Old Testament) actually occurred and serve both as true stories and prophetic allegory and typing for what would come many many years later.

[steve]

The bible is like Nostradamus, people can make the written events fit with a variety of different scenarios.
It is just a pity that neither provides any actual evidence to proof their validity.

[Kheldar]

Agreed. That's why it requires faith. It's hard to put trust in something unprovable, isn't it?

[steve]

Faith is a strange thing, it a bit like the soul, as humans (well most of us) we all have the ability to have faith, same as we all apparently have a soul (some may need faith to believe in a soul).
I have faith in some things, I have faith in my car, I believe it will get me from A to B.
I have faith that this forum will go to the next page that I ask it to (eventually).
I have faith that I will be able to open the Ramisis (without breaking it).

I have faith that this 64 bit machine will run a 32 bit user interface for a 16 bit patch for an 8 bit operating system that was originally constructed for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition, but I don't have faith in that company.
I certainly can't find the faith to believe a book that was written two thousand years ago.

All things considered, it is a good job that we don't all believe and have faith in the same things; wouldn't that be a boring world

[Kheldar]

Interesting. I wonder what more people would find easier: to find faith to believe a 2000 year-old book, or to find faith to believe in a "big bang" that supposedly happened nearly 14 billion years ago? If time were the only thing in question, seems to me the younger would be easier to believe since we aren't even remotely removed from it in comparison.

[cornettracing80]

ya i like the old testament...says you can stone your defiant children to death and the towns people are to help always read that one to my kids.....

[themagicdude]

I agree that there are some odd stories in the bible and I'm not sure that all of it is true. When it all comes down to it, the bible is a book and churches are just organizations of people. Both depend on the honesty of humans, which we all know isn't always reliable. There is no reason to have faith in a book or a chuch, but there's no reason not to believe in God. The absence of evidence, isn't evidence of absence. If God wanted there to be solid proof of his existance, we would have it, but then there's no need for faith. More than good behavior, confessions or conformity to a churh, faith is what will get a person into Heaven. If you need proof to believe in God, forget about it.

[cornettracing80]

its a great idea in theory,to love each other and to be committed to not letting others suffer...im all for it...but to dismiss hard cold evidence leaning towards science....thats where i get shaky...but at one time man believed to cure being a witch required fire so...

[Kheldar]

Sorry, but I just don't trust science that much. Too many "confirmed" things go bad, like vaccines and cancer-causing agents. It's only a matter of time before scientists say that water causes cancer. They just recently said (per the news) that we need more vitamin D from the sun, except that the sun causes cancer, so how does that work?

[themagicdude]

Don't dismiss any of the scientific evidence or theories. They're all important, they shouldn't be ignored. There are a lot of good scientific theories about all kinds of things, but none of them have to contradict religion. I'm not saying that you shouldn't lean toward science, I'm saying that you don't have to lean at all. There's no reason to take one side over another. Believing one doesn't mean ignoring the other. Gallileo (spelling?) tried to say the same thing. When the church was pulling one way and science the other, he was on a middle ground. Why do we have to believe that there's no god beacause of evolution and the big bang? Why do we have to believe that science is wrong because God created the universe and the humans? Can't they both be right? Can't God have created it all through the big bang, and through evolution? The bible doesn't say he shaped us from clay. No scientific theory says that everything has happened for no reason. People should quit looking for contradiction, where it isn't.

[Kheldar]

People should quit looking for contradiction, where it isn't.

Agreed. There's no doubt in my mind that God COULD have created everything through the big bang and evolution; I just don't think he did, mainly because, at least for the evolution bit, the Genesis account specifically says that God created man from the dust (not from any other organism) (Genesis 2:7). Big bang? Could have been, we don't really know. I'd like to believe that God just said it and it appeared from nothing at all, but that's just personal preference, since we aren't necessarily given all the details of the in-betweens...

But you're right, science and religion can coexist, as long as they're complimentary and there are no clear contradictions. But yes, why go looking for contradictions? It's just not productive.

[cornettracing80]

i think it is virtually impossible for the human brain to understand many things being stuck in a body that has a basic 100 year limit...quantum physics are one example of this...educated scenario summorizing...no way to prove any of it...